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| Tell me something Netherlands, my assumption the other night about you age etc. Spot on, yes ? RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:25 PM EST |
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is this pk guy just a spammer or is that "love for the daughter" for real? I just read a thread about it and am disgusted. You think it's for real? THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 27, 2006 3:35 PM EST |
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Yes we must debate about Bunny Rabbits at some point ... my thoughts are with you ... and yes we may meet again, don't know where , don't know when but I am sure it will be good ... THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 26, 2006 5:36 AM EST |
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I'll have to read this later, ONL. - Brt / FEB 26, 2006 3:48 AM EST |
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PS. Perhaps we'll meet again and have that debate about Bunny-Rabbits. THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 26, 2006 3:48 AM EST |
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I don't know if you'll get to read this UK, but thanks again for talking last night. It was good to hear an rational point of view for a change. You've given me a few things to think about. THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 26, 2006 3:46 AM EST |
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Goodnight THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 8:05 PM EST |
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Goodnight. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 8:05 PM EST |
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I thought you maybe an only child, see boys that have sisters know that girls act in ways that percieve sexual innuendos but are just natural, they are not meant to be acted apon. Yes I was developing at the time, and it seems slightly wrong however it was the only time he could see me really, even if thoughts such as that crossed his mind he would never have acted on them, I am sure you are not alone, I just feel your intellect is pushing you to believe it's "right" THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 8:02 PM EST |
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I'm off for the night. Thankyou Netherlands and UK for the discussion. You've given me some things to think about, rather than the usual judgemental crap and namecalling I am faced with. I really do plan to read that book Netherlands. Goodnight to you both. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 8:01 PM EST |
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Maybe I do Netherlands. I just don't know. Like I say, it seems natural, and just "right" most of the time. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:57 PM EST |
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It's now clear to me that you interpret your daughter's signals wrongly. I also walked nude in the house as a young kid. I sat on both my parents' laps and was cuddled by them (without ever thinking that I might have sex with them). When my grandfather did the same but started fumbling, I immediately felt ill at ease (without knowing anything about prevailing standards, laws and what have you) and started to avoid his lap. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 7:56 PM EST |
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No siblings, I was an only child. She may not see a sexual side to things, but it is already there, even before she has developed. How much stronger will it be once she is truly ready for sex ? If he was bathing you at that age you would have been starting to develop at the very least, do you think that your father might have ever had thoughts about you (if you don't mind me asking) ? If all fathers really go through this, as I think, maybe I will be able to ignore it like I have so far. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:55 PM EST |
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I did the same at 8, my dad bathed me until I was near on 10 and he used to carry me around ... it is normal behaviour, she does not see any sexual side to it ... really ... I still hug my dad and lean on him ... and she will too but I swear she is unlikely to want to lose her virginity to you .... can I just ask, did you grow up with any female siblings? THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 7:49 PM EST |
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She is innocent. But at the same time she has sexual instincts like anyone else. Even though she hasn't reached puberty she is already very demonstrative, she sits on my lap for ages at a time, cuddles me at every opportunity, and often walks from the bathroom to her bedroom completely nude, despite being told to get dressed in the bathroom by both her mother and I. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:45 PM EST |
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Okay ... I was gonna go to sleep but insomniac by nature ... I can't understand the feelings you have but even you say there is some doubt in whether the way you wish to express them is right ... Your daughter has all her life to be sexually active, most fathers would wish to true and keep the innocence ... I am sure you will discover the right way for the interests of your daughter ... I have faith in the fact you will do the "right" thing THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 7:40 PM EST |
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Netherlands : The woman the other night said that she had her father bathe her for years prior to their sexual encounters. Don't you think one interpretation was that she was basically presenting, and he was waiting for a physical sign of readiness to mate before their relationship became sexual ? This sounds to me like the incest avoidance was non-existant in both of them. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:39 PM EST |
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Maybe they are mixed up. I haven't done anything rash yet. It just seems natural and most of the time "right". THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:36 PM EST |
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Maybe your feelings are mixed up ... please don't do anything rash ... and goodnight : ) THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 7:34 PM EST |
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Sometimes I am ashamed of the feelings UK. But they are so strong, I love her so much. Goodnight. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:33 PM EST |
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Well I can't actually comprehend, female and at just over 16, I have little knowledge of the world but I can see it from your daughters eyes, and all I can say is your arguements are sound but the ethics is wrong ... but sleep I must ... and I am sure you too understand the bad sides to everything you are saying deep down inside ... THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 7:31 PM EST |
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Maybe not the standard, but I am human, yet I don't seem to have this instinct you claim all humans do have. Neither did the father of the woman the other night. If the instinct exists it is definatly not universal. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:29 PM EST |
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I don't know if she will ever know. It would be a huge risk under the current laws. You don't seem to understand the power a girl has over her father. Goodnight UK. Thankyou for the sensible discussion. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:28 PM EST |
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PK, you're not the world standard. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 7:26 PM EST |
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Well it is late and I shall need some sleep ... but I really hope you get yourself sorted, I think you are wasting your intellect on such a stupid thing ... and I hope you realise that what ever desires you have, your daughter is way more important and I hope for her sake you forget all these notions and she never knows about all of this ... THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 7:26 PM EST |
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It only takes two closed-minded bigots to delete a thread US. It happens quite often. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:26 PM EST |
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Why did this get deleted? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:25 PM EST |
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I don't believe that incest avoidance really occurs in humans. As a father I guarantee that father's have no such instinct. I don't think daughters do either. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:24 PM EST |
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My desires aren't important. What is important is that the right to have sex with the consenting partner of their choice should be extended to all sexually mature humans. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:23 PM EST |
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PK, you already know that incest avoidance is the prevailing standard in primates, so it's not the law you should fight, but the way homo sapiens (the non-perverts among them) is wired. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 7:23 PM EST |
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If she did it was probably due to her having to maintain a clandestine relationship for several years, and the societal reaction, effectively telling her that her father's love for her was wrong. I don't doubt that the effects of that are devestating. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:22 PM EST |
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Why should there be the right to refuse, PK? If someone feels as strongly in his views as you seem to, why should anyone have to consent to sex? Why is a rapist's desire not as important or valid as yours?
THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:21 PM EST |
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The right to refuse is as valid as the right to consent US. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:20 PM EST |
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Because it is the equvilant of locking a teenager with an ape to see if they have sexual relations ... it is a fictious EVIL experiment, the only outcome being your daughters unhappiness ... did you realise the girl you quote as "having enjoyed it" tried to take her own life? THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 7:20 PM EST |
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The use of force should be ruled out netherlands, perhaps I wasn't clear on that. I'm referring only to mutually consensual acts. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:20 PM EST |
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Why should anyone be denied anything? Why are there any limits on anything? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:19 PM EST |
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Yes an experiment, to gain scientifically valid data. Maybe repeal if for one part of the country and not another, to keep as a control group. - PK THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:19 PM EST |
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NOTE NEW PROXY. Of course I have a heart. I love them both deeply. The law allows me to explore the physical side of that love with only one of them however. It is unjust. A daughter may not approach her father, but she may well be receptive to his approaches. Why should they be denied this right ? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:18 PM EST |
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"If I'm wrong, change them back." Sorry? You want an experiment, knowing that it'll ruin the lives of millions of children? No matter what somebody's view is about informed consent in children, it shouldn't be hard to imagine that when there's no law to hold incestuous fathers back, a great many children will be forced to have sex with them. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 7:17 PM EST |
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Why should there be the right to refuse, PK? If someone feels as strongly in his views as you seem to, why should anyone have to consent to sex? Why is a rapist's desire not as important or valid as yours? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:16 PM EST |
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Do you know what, we are all overlooking one person in this? YOUR DAUGHTER ... why can't you respect the fact that body and the mind develop differently ... the likelihood of her approaching you and asking to have relations is almost zilch ... so the only other way is if you PRETEND it is normal behaviour ... I really can't see how you can love your wife and daughter and yet still betray both of them ... do you have any morals? do you have a heart? THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 7:14 PM EST |
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So long as they are sexually mature and consenting brother-sister should be legal as well. There should be only two laws regarding sex for sexually mature individuals: The right to refuse, and the right to consent. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 7:13 PM EST |
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Then you must also approve of brother & sister mating, right? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:12 PM EST |
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If you mean physical persuasion, then i disagree entirely. But if you mean explaining it to her rationally, then there should be no problem. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 7:12 PM EST |
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The risk of genetically defective offspring is greatly overstated. Unless the parent is carrying damaging recessive genese there is no risk whatsoever. Aside from that, birth control is plentiful and effective. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 7:11 PM EST |
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I'm guessing you have no problem with "persuading" a child that she's ready for sex. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:11 PM EST |
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No, I don't. Biology and their own body do. The signs are fairly clear - when her nipples start to swell (first stage of breast development) or when there is any pigmented pubic or axillary hair, also the pelvis begins to widen. These are physical signs to any males that a female is ready to mate. The law should allow her to if she so chooses. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 7:10 PM EST |
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a simple biological function? your child together would have dna problems. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:09 PM EST |
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Sex is not only a bodily function. It involves a lot more. Ask any sexologist. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 7:08 PM EST |
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I see, so YOU determine if a child is ready, then? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:07 PM EST |
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And how do you know as a man when she is ready? you will judge on what you WANT to see ... not on what she feels ... do you want to ruin her life? cause her to hate herself? that will be the result ... are you willing to risk messing her up for good? do you love her? THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 7:07 PM EST |
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I do think the laws are what causes the suffering. Repeal them for ten or so years, see what the results are. If I'm wrong, change them back. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 7:07 PM EST |
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This isn't like driving or voting, this is a simple bodily function. Readiness is defined biologically. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 7:06 PM EST |
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Also, the strange thing is that you actually do seem to think that, if daughters who are "introduced to sex by their fathers" end up being scarred for life, it's because of the law punishing incestuous fathers. People who think that all suffering is caused by the daughter's concern about dad's well-being cannot be taken seriously. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 7:06 PM EST |
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Of course I don't want to hurt her. Even if it were legal, I wouldn't even ask her until she was ready. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 7:05 PM EST |
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Children are incapable of informed consent, period. It's why we don't let them drink, marry, drive, vote, etc., until a certain majority is reached. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:04 PM EST |
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A guy who wishes to hurt his daughter THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 7:04 PM EST |
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Of course I don't want her to hate me. What do you think I am ? RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 7:03 PM EST |
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Even if there's no force involved, most children will think that what daddy does is right. You should not take advantage of children's loyalty to parents or interpret it as "informed consent". That's the part where you go wrong completely. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 7:03 PM EST |
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This is the 4th time I'm asking, PK: So, if I understand correctly, you'd have no problem with a 55-yr-old man having sex with your daughter, so long as she "consented"?
THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:03 PM EST |
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I've answered you already US. If she is sexually mature, and consenting it should be legal, if he is 15, 55 or 95. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 7:02 PM EST |
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I was shanghaied by alien jews and retarded space bastards from China, and got away with their hubcaps! Pardon my language. I'm *fuel-injected*! I am a GOD DAMN *visionary*. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:02 PM EST |
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seriously, you seem so intelligent why can't you process the fact that your daughter however much you want her too, will HATE YOU in later life if you do anything ... do you want that to happen? Do you want her to feel isolated, do you want her to attempt to take her own life (like the girl you are miss quoting told us afterwards)? It would all be YOUR fault THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 7:01 PM EST |
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3rd time I'm asking you, PK: So, if I understand correctly, you'd have no problem with a 55-yr-old man having sex with your daughter, so long as she "consented"? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:01 PM EST |
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If it is non-consensual it is abuse, otherwise, not abuse. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 7:01 PM EST |
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humans are sexually repulsed by the pheromones of their close relatives THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:01 PM EST |
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Rape victims often have orgasms, too. That does not mean it's something the victim wanted to happen. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 7:00 PM EST |
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The ***facts*** are that she consented, prior to menarche, and that she climaxed during the encounters. It sounded like she enjoyed it. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 7:00 PM EST |
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I've never abused her. I've never even touched her sexually. Also if ANY force is involved it is ra pe, plain and simple. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:58 PM EST |
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sorry ... you've lost me ... do you agree it is abuse? THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 6:58 PM EST |
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I ask you again: So, if I understand correctly, you'd have no problem with a 55-yr-old man having sex with your daughter, so long as she "consented"? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:58 PM EST |
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That's about right UK. So long as she is sexually mature, and consenting it should be legal. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:57 PM EST |
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You are grossly distorting the facts! That girl felt she had no choice but to give in to her father's sick demands. That's hardly the same thing. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:57 PM EST |
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The term abuse fits what you are doing perfectly:1. To use wrongly or improperly, yep this is true in the case of father + daughter 2. To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use. yep again 3. To force sexual activity on. YES! 4. Obsolete. To deceive or trick. oh .... this happens to link too. I think the term is perfectly apt ... it's just a shame you wish to dabble in it
THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 6:56 PM EST |
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Well, let's say that when you can no longer control your urges, you'd tell yourself that it's not wrong to give in to them. Killing your conscience is what you seem to be after. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 6:56 PM EST |
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So, if I understand correctly, you'd have no problem with a 55-yr-old man having sex with your daughter, so long as she "consented"? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:55 PM EST |
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Some do. A girl here the other night admitted that she did. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:54 PM EST |
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nobody chooses sex with their dad THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:54 PM EST |
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What behaviour netherlands ? I haven't done anything. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:52 PM EST |
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I've never talked of abuse. Rather of a consensual expression of physical side of our love. Ihaven't undertaken any barbarian activities. I do believe that she shouldn't be restricted in the right to choose to have sex with the partner of her choice once she reaches puberty though. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:51 PM EST |
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I concur, Nederlander. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:51 PM EST |
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You're typically a person desperately trying to justify his own behavior, PK. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 6:50 PM EST |
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sorry ........... I apologise for my ignorance THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 6:50 PM EST |
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Haven't you heard yet, UK? It's not "abuse", rather it's "love". According to him, anyway. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:49 PM EST |
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Yet you don't seem to mind the notion of ruining your daughter's life. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:48 PM EST |
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I really do hope you can get some help, you seem well educated and I think it such a shame you wish to par-take in such barbarian activities... I think you could do a lot better things with your life than abuse your daughter THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 6:48 PM EST |
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She might approve, probably not though. In the current climate it isn't worth the risk of bringing it up with her. I couldn't bear to lose my family. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:48 PM EST |
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Why not tell her, PK? You haven't because you know your wife will leave & take the child with her. I still maintain you are a coward. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:47 PM EST |
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yes, what does your wife have to say about this? No doubt she's as ecstatic as we are. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:46 PM EST |
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Yes I'm married, no I haven't discussed it. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:46 PM EST |
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Eight. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:45 PM EST |
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You don't have to answer this but: Are you married? and have you discussed this with your wife/her mother? THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 6:45 PM EST |
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And you didn't think that was perhaps an immoral way of viewing sexuality? How old is your daughter now? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:44 PM EST |
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I don't know. It kind of came out of nowhere as my daughter got older. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:43 PM EST |
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Well you seem to have a one-track mind and I attempted to see a good side to you but it didn't last long ... I really did try to see past what has been said about you but you seem to have shown your true colours once again ... I admire your honesty if it is such, but I can not respect you for what you have written ... can't you try and not go back to it? THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 6:41 PM EST |
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All right, I'll bite. What led to your epiphany? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:41 PM EST |
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no THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:40 PM EST |
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Not really US. I didn't understand until the last two years recently. It wouldn't have even occured to me before that. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:40 PM EST |
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get lost THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 6:39 PM EST |
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Have you always held these beliefs, PK? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:39 PM EST |
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Why would I be having a midlife crisis ? That is absurd. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:38 PM EST |
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somebody onslaught us with some thought-provoking questions THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:38 PM EST |
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Bad acid trip you're sharing with us, eh bub? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:38 PM EST |
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Okay, this thread seems to be fúcked up enough... THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 6:37 PM EST |
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Oh the reason he is having trouble with his age is because of his age, he is probably having a mid-life crisis or memory loss THE UNITED KINGDOM / FEB 25, 2006 6:37 PM EST |
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No, I havent' had a birthday. I was 38 the other night as well : http://justcurio.us/answer/QuestionForMothersOfGirlsAge d812HowManyTimesDoYouThinkYourHusbandHasHadSexW RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:37 PM EST |
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To understand: to perceive and comprehend the nature and significance of. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 6:36 PM EST |
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Odd, PK. Just the other night you were 37. Have a birthday, did you? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:35 PM EST |
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I'm speechless... THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:35 PM EST |
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Of course not. No 14 year old boy could understand the strength of a father's love for his daughter. A 14 year old girl could of course. But she has better things to do than get online. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:34 PM EST |
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How mad is a killer whale bereft of its pup? THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 6:34 PM EST |
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Well, one thing is sure, Proxy Kid. You're not the 14- or 16-year-old boy that some people believe you to be. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 6:32 PM EST |
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Thirty-eight. You ? RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:31 PM EST |
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does pk mean parkour? THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:31 PM EST |
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How old are you PK? Justcurious. THE UNITED STATES / FEB 25, 2006 6:30 PM EST |
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Oh well, it seemed to fit. It can be hard to guage accurately on here. RUSSIA / FEB 25, 2006 6:29 PM EST |
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If you still think I'm a childless hag I have to disappoint you. THE NETHERLANDS / FEB 25, 2006 6:28 PM EST |